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	<title>Comments on: Hibernate: Trouble in Paradise</title>
	<atom:link href="http://daniel.gredler.net/2008/03/11/hibernate-trouble-in-paradise/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://daniel.gredler.net/2008/03/11/hibernate-trouble-in-paradise/</link>
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		<item>
		<title>By: Daniel Gredler</title>
		<link>http://daniel.gredler.net/2008/03/11/hibernate-trouble-in-paradise/#comment-453</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Gredler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gredler.wordpress.com/?p=61#comment-453</guid>
		<description>@Jason: I knew unqualified praise for Maven would get me in trouble! ;-) Can you give (or do you have a link to) a concise explanation of how transitive dependency management is better in Ivy than in M2?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jason: I knew unqualified praise for Maven would get me in trouble! <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  Can you give (or do you have a link to) a concise explanation of how transitive dependency management is better in Ivy than in M2?</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Carreira</title>
		<link>http://daniel.gredler.net/2008/03/11/hibernate-trouble-in-paradise/#comment-452</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Carreira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:03:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gredler.wordpress.com/?p=61#comment-452</guid>
		<description>@Daniel, if you think Maven2 dependency management rocks, it means you haven&#039;t tried the other options... Try Ivy, for example, and you&#039;ll see how dependency management should be done. 

Also, don&#039;t depend on 3rd parties to define or manage the meta-data. Create your own, and manage your own repository. It&#039;s a little more work up front, but it&#039;s a lot less hassle over the long run.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Daniel, if you think Maven2 dependency management rocks, it means you haven&#8217;t tried the other options&#8230; Try Ivy, for example, and you&#8217;ll see how dependency management should be done. </p>
<p>Also, don&#8217;t depend on 3rd parties to define or manage the meta-data. Create your own, and manage your own repository. It&#8217;s a little more work up front, but it&#8217;s a lot less hassle over the long run.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://daniel.gredler.net/2008/03/11/hibernate-trouble-in-paradise/#comment-451</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 23:10:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gredler.wordpress.com/?p=61#comment-451</guid>
		<description>Take a look at EclipseLink - Toplink is OpenSource now!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Take a look at EclipseLink &#8211; Toplink is OpenSource now!</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Gredler</title>
		<link>http://daniel.gredler.net/2008/03/11/hibernate-trouble-in-paradise/#comment-450</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Gredler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 22:08:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gredler.wordpress.com/?p=61#comment-450</guid>
		<description>I actually think Maven2&#039;s dependency management rocks. Like John, I think that the Hibernate metadata which the Hibernate team publishes (in the form of POMs) is their responsibility. They&#039;re doing a sloppy job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually think Maven2&#8217;s dependency management rocks. Like John, I think that the Hibernate metadata which the Hibernate team publishes (in the form of POMs) is their responsibility. They&#8217;re doing a sloppy job.</p>
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		<title>By: John Greeley</title>
		<link>http://daniel.gredler.net/2008/03/11/hibernate-trouble-in-paradise/#comment-449</link>
		<dc:creator>John Greeley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gredler.wordpress.com/?p=61#comment-449</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s only half true; the problem may not have to do with the hibernate libraries directly, but it does have to do with the half-baked management of the metadata that the hibernate team publishes to the repositories (both in its own private JBoss repos and the central maven repos).

Of course you can rightly claim that the whole design of the maven dependency management is fatally flawed, but I seem to notice plenty of projects who leverage maven with excellent success while others screw it up royally. And this seems to be far more dependent on the team behind the project rather than the complexity of the technology they are creating.

It seems to me that JBoss doesn&#039;t even bother testing the majority of things it publishes to the maven repositories. The only worse offenders are the Sun projects at java.net who actually seem interested in figuring out ways of to make using maven completely impossible. On the other hand the Spring team has a pretty good track record at publishing reasonable maven metadata even though they don&#039;t even use it as a build tool for their core project.

Despite the flaws in maven, this type of problem reveals the differences in quality control between different project teams. At least Grails avoids maven altogether rather then confusing the issue by supporting it only halfway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s only half true; the problem may not have to do with the hibernate libraries directly, but it does have to do with the half-baked management of the metadata that the hibernate team publishes to the repositories (both in its own private JBoss repos and the central maven repos).</p>
<p>Of course you can rightly claim that the whole design of the maven dependency management is fatally flawed, but I seem to notice plenty of projects who leverage maven with excellent success while others screw it up royally. And this seems to be far more dependent on the team behind the project rather than the complexity of the technology they are creating.</p>
<p>It seems to me that JBoss doesn&#8217;t even bother testing the majority of things it publishes to the maven repositories. The only worse offenders are the Sun projects at java.net who actually seem interested in figuring out ways of to make using maven completely impossible. On the other hand the Spring team has a pretty good track record at publishing reasonable maven metadata even though they don&#8217;t even use it as a build tool for their core project.</p>
<p>Despite the flaws in maven, this type of problem reveals the differences in quality control between different project teams. At least Grails avoids maven altogether rather then confusing the issue by supporting it only halfway.</p>
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		<title>By: Graeme Rocher</title>
		<link>http://daniel.gredler.net/2008/03/11/hibernate-trouble-in-paradise/#comment-448</link>
		<dc:creator>Graeme Rocher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gredler.wordpress.com/?p=61#comment-448</guid>
		<description>Your problem has nothing to do with Hibernate, but rather that flawed tool Maven 2. Nothing beats managing your own jars ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your problem has nothing to do with Hibernate, but rather that flawed tool Maven 2. Nothing beats managing your own jars <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Peter Thomas</title>
		<link>http://daniel.gredler.net/2008/03/11/hibernate-trouble-in-paradise/#comment-447</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 15:22:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gredler.wordpress.com/?p=61#comment-447</guid>
		<description>I think not moving to JPA and sticking to &quot;legacy&quot; Hibernate was a good idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think not moving to JPA and sticking to &#8220;legacy&#8221; Hibernate was a good idea.</p>
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